Gearbox oil

[Midship]

Hi All,

I have always been under the impression that Beat gearboxes run on a good quality engine oil- like what i heard on here, read in the manual and what ive heard about other honda gear boxes.

A beat owner over here asked me some time back what oil to use in his gear box, so i recommend a top quality 10w-30 engine oil. He since claims that it was totally the wrong oil to be using and that honda have specific oil that for use in their gear boxs and is sold by them by the liter if you bring a container down to your local honda dealer.

Could anyone clarify with certainty what oil is best for beat gear boxes... and maybe steve could tell us what specification this original honda gear oil is...

Thanks,



Oh forget to mention that the original API SE rating listed in the manual seems to be obsolete... so i think the one he used was SL rated (one of the current API ratings)

[MajorTom]

Yes, once I changed gearbox oil in my Prelude and got Honda Manual Transmission Fluid (or something like that). While most Honda dealers will sell them /litre in your own container you can buy it at some dealers in container! I think it's blue and says Honda MTF on it, can't remember though it was 3-4 years ago.

Although most people claim a good quality engine oil is the same and as good, etc. I don't know what's the truth is.

Tom

[Midship]

Originally posted by MajorTom
Yes, once I changed gearbox oil in my Prelude and got Honda Manual Transmission Fluid (or something like that). While most Honda dealers will sell them /litre in your own container you can buy it at some dealers in container! I think it's blue and says Honda MTF on it, can't remember though it was 3-4 years ago.

Although most people claim a good quality engine oil is the same and as good, etc. I don't know what's the truth is.

Tom

Hi Tom,

I heard Honda do sell a gear oil alright but I always assumed it was just an SE rated 10w-30, so i thought any SE rated 10w-30 oil should be OK since its the exact same specification. However this owner claims that the sound from the gear box etc changed when he changed oil, his argument is that engine oil isnt good enough for the pressure involved in the gear box.

Ive never had a problem using Regualr oil in the box... i would definitly change to honda gear oil if someone can say that it is the WRONG oil to be using. Obviously if the only difference is the Honda label I wont be in such a hurry to change.

Cheers

[MajorTom]

The Honda gear box oil is NOT a motor oil. So it's not the label only but most Honda mechanics says that there's no major differences between a good engine oil and the honda mtf oil. I just bought it once because I had the chance and I HAD to change the oil (as the whole gearbox was taken apart). Otherwise I wouldn't bother and I don't think that could be the REAL problem in an otherwise good gearbox. Although I'm not a mechanic so it's just my experience I'm talking about.

Tom

[tinytim]

his argument is that engine oil isnt good enough for the pressure involved in the gear box.

Most decent engine oil will deal with the pressure, given the gearbox is splash fed anyway he's talking about the oil being squeezed off the teeth. I can't remember the technical term for "stickyness" but I'm sure you've seen the magnatec adverts, in the late 80s most if not all engine oil had improved 'stickyness' from the old stuff and a good many equipmet manufacturers did away with specialist transmission fluid for ease of maintenance (until they realised the loss of profit through simplified servicing).

I dare say engine oil won't last as long (proper gearbox oil should outlast the box) but there's no reason it won't perform well for a couple of years.

All of that being said I put Shell MTF in mine.

[Paul w]

viscosity.....

[tinytim]

No, that's it's ability to flow, It's something like adhesivness but not. I'm almost sure it begins with a 't' (and no it's not tackyness, although it shold be 'cos it's easier to remember )
I'll have to look it up now

[Paul w]

the only word i can think of that i've heard used with regard to oil is tanacity...kinda makes sense?

PW

[STEVE BARNES]

HI
Oil "stickiness" is measured in STOKES, or CENTISTOKES as far as I remember
Steve Barnes.

[Midship]

Originally posted by tinytim


Most decent engine oil will deal with the pressure, given the gearbox is splash fed anyway he's talking about the oil being squeezed off the teeth.

I dare say engine oil won't last as long (proper gearbox oil should outlast the box) but there's no reason it won't perform well for a couple of years.

Agreed, that’s what I thought. I just wanted double check to make sure I hadn’t been dishing out gear box damaging advice!

Out of interest Tim what is the viscosity of the Shell stuff you are using? I think they only sell it over here in standard gear oil spec.. 75w-90 or something like that

[Midship]

Ok had a discussion with the guy and done a fair bit of googling and have come to a different conclusion:

Here a quote that sums up things pretty well, i found it on an American site, there seems to be a good bit of ambiguity over which oil to use and this debate has been going on in relation to all Honda models:

my '91 Integra's shop manual also specifies 10W-30.

But the point is that the motor oils in use now are not the same as those
available in 1991. Honda's metallurgy for synchros is unlikely to have
changed more than motor oil formulation.

It appears that the changeover to the MTF specification coincides with the
planning and implementation of much stricter OBD-II emission controls,
which would have been the primary driver behind zinc and sulfur reductions
in motor oils.

Synthetic motor oils have greater film strength than mineral oils and are
meant to reduce friction as much as possible. Synchros require friction to
function. If the synchros cannot work correctly with the oil film that lies
between their surfaces, they cannot correctly apply the friction that makes
them work. Zinc and sulfur are sort of "sacrificial anodes", taking the
brunt of the friction before the underlying synchro metal does, should the
oil film break, which it will under heavy use. This is the reason Honda's
MTF has the additives it does.

Honda MTF is the preferable oil for any Honda manual transmission that
originally specified 10W-30.

So it would seem 10w-30 motor oil would be perfect IF you could get some of the old API SE rated oil, which of course is no longer available! Honda MTF should be used instead!

I know ill be off out to buy some MTF!

Perhaps the 5w-30 Magnatec engine oil recommendation in the manual should be changed to Honda MTF to avoid further confusion.. what do people think?