Rattle Rattle Rattle

[BumbleBeat]

Hi Steve

Thanks for the manual. Too bad I wouldn't know Japanese if it bit me. While putting the bottom end back together my clicker torque-wrench failed to click and I overtightened a rod cap and ruined a bearing. If I'm replacing one I'm replacing them all, but I'm not sure what I need. The colors on the bearings are gone of course, but the markings are very legible. Hoping you could take a look at these pictures and interpret? Related, you had a link to the page in the manual on the rod bearings in English in this thread:

http://www.u-ukhbc.co.uk/vbb/showthr...hlight=bearing

Think you can track that down?

[bigB]

Something doesn't look quite right to me. Are those caps properly orientated?

[BumbleBeat]

I think so, but at my age I'm not sure of anything anymore. :-( I Photoshop-swapped the 1-2 caps in this pic and it looks less crazy to me, but then I don't know what it's supposed to look like in the first place.



I think I need to go double-check the marks I put on those parts before I disassembled them.

[Steve_M]

You should have the numbers 1,2,3,4 on the rods across the rod/cap joint, you need to read the letters from the crank (A, B, C, D) then look up the correct shell on the matrix

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Y2...lTNydad0hTENNx

[BumbleBeat]

Finally getting back to the Beat. Crank has BBC (almost impossible to see, that's another story), rods are 3,3,2, so green, green, green (thanks for the chart!). The last piece of the puzzle, the bearing part number. http://jp-carparts.com/honda/partlis...ig=E&fig1=1600 lists "DAIDO" AND "TAIHO". Are those different manufacturers?

13214-P36-003 BEARING D, CONNECTING ROD (GREEN)(DAIDO) 6 JPY 1,128 USD 10.74
13214-P36-004 BEARING D, CONNECTING ROD (GREEN)(TAIHO) 6 JPY 1,348 USD 12.84

[Steve_M]

Yes, 2 different suppliers originally, I expect one has superseded to the other by now, so only one type would be available.

http://www.taihonet.co.jp/e/engine_b.html

https://www.daido.co.jp/en/products/index.html

[BumbleBeat]

How is it you know EVERYTHING about Beats?

[steveinjapan]

Just wanted to chime in here on the rattle. I've had an engine-speed rattle above about 80 kph since I've owned the car, never getting any better or any worse. The odd thing is that I hear it only when driving on the expressway with the top (hood) down. With the top (hood) in place I do not hear it. The seems counter-intuitive, and it has brought me no closer to identifying the source of the noise. It sounds more mechanical than an exhaust leak, but that's only a guess.

Steve in Okinawa

[Greenscale]

1) Loud rattle in 3-4k rpm range, every gear. Terribly annoying! From what i've read it's probably the clutch, nothing to do except buy earplugs, sigh.

2) This one concerns me. After fully, fully warmed up (15 minutes or so; probably 5 minutes after up to full operating temperature) I start getting a nasty engine rattle. It's in time with the engine rpm. Higher pitch than a rod knock. Almost sounds like really harsh pre-ignition, or maybe something in the valve train. It comes on slowly, getting louder and louder the longer you drive it. It first begins in the 4500rpm range, but the range gets wider and wider the longer you drive it. It's at it worst when driving a constant speed. A slight amount of throttle makes it stop, as does just letting off the throttle. 20 minutes or so after it starts it's almost constant, doesn't get quiet with throttle trickery.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Scott

Attachment 2736

I have this exact same problem and have not been able to find a solution. I have tried adjusting ignition timing and it’s had no effect. I noticed in another post on this thread that you’ve narrowed it down to a specific cylinder. Did you happen to locate the source of the sound for noise 2? The noise has been driving me up the wall and the fact that I nothing I’ve tried has managed to quiet it bugs the living hell out of me.

[BumbleBeat]

Update: Still not fixed, but I know a little more. I was fortunate to find a Beat being parted out only a few hundred miles away, so a road trip and a few hundred bucks got me a head and a transmission. Replaced those, no change. That's a bummer, but I"m no longer concerned that something is about to explode. Just finished replacing all motor mounts. The goal for that was less shake in the car at idle, which it indeed helped. It toned down the rattle a bit too. Driver side motor mount was interesting. Looking at the top picture, the steel center of the mount rests on the chassis, the engine hangs from the threads. Comparing old vs new, the old one had the engine hanging a full cm lower than the new one.


Next up, I ordered a noise finder https://www.steelmantools.com/chassisear.html. I'll find this if I don't go insane first.

[BumbleBeat]

I FINALLY have news. The noise detector confirmed the noise coming from the engine. It wasn't very useful for narrowing down beyond that, but at least I can rule out drivetrain. Early on in diagnosing this I retarded the timing quite a bit to test for pre-ignition and the noise didn't change. I retarded it again today, apparently more than last time, because it got quieter, and still had good power, which surprised me. If a little is good, a lot is better, so I dialed the distributor as far as it would go and the noise is gone, or nearly so. There's some strangeness here. I had the timing dead on. Jumpered the connector, strobed the 20BTDC mark at 1200rpm, it's pretty routine. In the current max-retard condition, the engine light is on and the car can barely pull itself at low rpm, no surprises there. But at high rpm it drives like normal. It seems like it's advancing way too much. The other thought is that it's running way too lean at high rpm, which could also induce pre-ignition. Recall that the knock only happens under a high speed load; no noise with clutch in or sitting in the driveway revved to the moon. I'm beginning to think this mystery is an ECU problem. Make sense, since ECUs are a complete mystery to me. Any thoughts Beat Genius Steve_M? Greenscale, have you tried retarding the ignition way forward?