You want chips with that?

[Paul w]

Well, i've gone and done it!

Whipped the Ecu out today, quick bit of soldering and popped it back in.......

My ECU now has 2 extra chips and a bit of wire!

It started first time, and what a difference its made!

Honestly, its a different car.....it has....erm......what the word the V8 boys use.......Torque!!!!

Not huge amounts, but enough to make a big difference. Engine note seems softer, less 'rattly', gearbox becomes more flexible and the rev limiter has gone....

At first I didnt notice that the limit had moved (i dont know where it is now, and dont intend finding out!) but it just means that you tend to change a bit nearer to 9000 than before. The engine starts to run out of steam then anyway, so its a natural point to change.

I really can't recommend this modification enough, the difference is quite dramatic, without making the car frantic or over 'harsh'.

My first thoughts were that the engine felt like a 1.1 or 1.2 litre block, the gears seem more useful as you dont have to be in any particular gear to accelerate.....oh and the speed limit has gone but 90mph is not to be recommended with the roof down!!

Watch this space for an upgrade service costing around £100

PW



:bounce:

[jcs]

Paul,

I think I'd be up for one of these jobbies - it sounds like the answer to a "maidens" prayer! Let me know what, how and when.

See you tomorrow?

John

[Jason]

Sounds great. I'll be interested to see how they go over the longer term.

PS If anyone is interested. I still have an ECU for sale (see thread).

[Paul w]

Jason - is this the repaired one? Its just that i'd be reluctant to give someone a repaired ECU as an exchange item, even if its working fine.

PW

[Jason]

Hey Paul,

Both ECU's have been repaired ie capacitors have been replaced. The original I ended up giving to a electronics engineer to repair and the one I purchased from Oz was repaired by a tech. in Japan. I have used the original the most, driving from Melbourne to Adelaide (800km) so I am convinced that one works. I have just put the one I purchased from Oz in the car so I'm keen to sell the original.

Regards

Jason :)

[tinytim]

Thanks Paul,
Now you've got me in two minds and I don't know which to do first. Do the chip and drive to see how it goes then replace the engine with the 700cc. Or change the engine and drive to see how it goes with the limiters still in place before I re-chip.
I hate decisions.:explode:

[tinytim]

P.S.
Where did the capacitors come from? Maplins?
Tim

[Paul w]

I didn't swap the capacitors in the end, the ones in it looked 'as new', no barreling or leakage. I will be swapping them when I get time though, just not an urgent job any more (I didn't have them to hand at the time)

An interesting feature of the chipping process is that you have to insert a link, without which the new chip lies dormant. I was thinking about extending this link out to a switch, but I have reservations about the learning process of the ECU (would it re-learn every time you switched it?) and whether you could switch it with power on (probably not, if it pulls down the engine map data at start up)

To be honest tim, I'd do the chipping first, its cheaper, easier and I think you would be pleasantly suprised at the difference.

PW

[Spence100]

Hi

Not a problem, but something to think about!

I put my Beat through an MOT today, wondering about emissions with the chip installed. Guessing that it may be, it was running a high CO percentage. As some of you well know that with a cat the CO percentage should be 0%ish but with the chip it was 5%. Oooops!:eek: So that’s rather large if there was no cat at all.

I will be looking into buying an Air Fuel Ratio controller so that I can pull down the CO% manually on the dashboard.

On the other hand just fit a switch as Paul has said to turn the chip off, just for the MOT.

So my Beat Passed!!!! with no other probs

Not sure if anyone else has seen this!

Cheers Spence

[ozsamurai]

I'm glad you all like your chips! Steve is probably hovering around waiting for everyone to blow their engines up (lol) I have seen this chip perform on the racetrack at TRM and was fairly impressed as well, glad you all get the same on your cars! I spoke to my ECU expert and he doesn't suggest switching the link wire, as you mentioned Paul, it does interfere with the learning process and it also inreases the chance of someone 'live switching' it which could be dangerous. He also mentions about the necessity to run wires outside the box, leading to heat, dust, water ingress, if it wasn't sealed properly, which acts on all the capacitors, generally he thought it was a bad idea...he helped design the ECU so he should know, but then again he was erring on the side of safety and had said that in the initial trials of the ECU they had installed 6 separate prototype ECU'S simultaneously and 'switched' them for testing, but not the one unit only. Two more will be on the way in the May box, please let me know if anyone wants one, Akiyama-san the maker is really quick to get them made but likes to do them in batches not one-offs.

Cheer

Oz

[Jason]

Hey Oz,

What is your ECU expert thoughts on the Chip? The fact that there is space on the circuit board suggests they had something in mind.

Jason

[Paul w]

As some of you well know that with a cat the CO percentage should be 0%ish but with the chip it was 5%. Oooops!

Did it pass the MOT without doing anything though? (ie even with the chip, the emmisions are ok?)

PW

[ozsamurai]

Yes Jason you are right, the empty spaces were put there for any future modifcations or bug fixes that may have been (and were) necessary when the car was out in the marketplace, you will notice if any of you have a Ver F onwards, those holes have already been plugged with an extra chip, I have a Ver Z ECU in the Bond Beat (the ultimate as far as Honda tuned it), this is one of the reasons the Project A chip maker says you can't fit his chip init to a VerZ ECU, as you would have to remove the existing upgrade chip that Honda already installed....and he hasn't done it before...

Cheers

Oz

[Paul w]

Just a quick note to those planning on doing this...

Please, make sure you are up to the job. The pitch of the legs is quite fine, and it needs a small soldering iron and definitely a soldersucker. I doubt you'd be able to do the job with solder braid alone.
The PCB is covered with a conformal coating, and these can be quite toxic when heated, so do it in a well ventilated area or use a fume extractor. check your joints afterwards (i had one dry one that i had to re-make).
I suggest completely removing the PCB from the frame, as it makes it easier to work on.



If anyone wants one doing, then let me know. If your close enough I could manage a while you wait service!

PW

[Spence100]

Did it pass the MOT without doing anything though? (ie even with the chip, the emmisions are ok?)

No Paul it would of Failed, so I removed the link wire from the ECU and allowed the ECU to reset, so that it was back to normal then retested the Emissions. Passed!!!

Of cause I refitted it afterwards but I will be getting Air Fuel Ratio controller so that I don't have to do this next tme.

Oz, Do you know if they have seen this in Japan on the cars there.
I would think that Japans emission laws are the same as here if not more so.

Cheers Spence

[Robin]

I'm a bit confused!

How come it affects the emmissions so much? hundreds of people chip their cars everyday, you have massive engined cars adding 20-40 bhp with the addition of a chip and their emmision are still ok so why does it affect the beat engine so much?

Has anyone else fitted a chip and found this problem?

[Paul w]

I wonder if we could get a DIP switch to fit in that gap instead of the link? Then there would be no need for solder.

I'll get mine emmision tested out of interest.

PW

[Robin]

Hey Paul,

You are running just a normal Beat aren't you with a FGK legalis exhaust and the project A chip right?

Would be interesting to see what results you get.

[Paul w]

Yeah, its pretty much standard at the mo!

Just the quad pipe and a chip. I havent fitted the funnels yet, and i'm having a plate made up to take a cone filter for the intake.

PW

[Robin]

So if the results come back the same as the earlier results - e.g. high emmissions what will be the answer?

Surely alot of people who have already fitted the chip wont have a switch installed so they will be running just with the chip on all the time? Is it guarenteed that they will fail an emmissions test? especially as alot of people no longer have a cat on the exhaust.

[Paul w]

You dont get something for nothing when it comes to engine performance, and i'm guessing it burns a little more fuel to get the performance hike. If its not doing this too cleanly then it would explain the increase in emmisions.

Oz can perhaps tell us if this is the norm, or whether spence is just special!

PW

[Robin]

Hmm I have heard that chipping actually helps improve fuel ecconomy though due the increase in torque and therefore not needing to drive with so much throttle all the time. If this is the case the emmissions surely wouldn't be a problem?

I find it hard to believe that chipping would be such a common mod if it was causing this many problems to all car owners who chip?

It would be interesting to see what results other people get.
Paul W we are all waiting with baited breath for your results...

[ozsamurai]

Wow this has become a heated debate, its good to see some action on the board for a change I thought you'd all gone for the summer. Emmissions, the chip shouldn't make any or very little difference, it does alter the three MAPS used in the ECU programming, but emmisions ratios come as direct results of Fuel/Air ratio and what the catalytic converter does with it, dirty sparks can even hike the values due to insufficient or latent burn, there are a host of factors. The fact that Spence's Beat went up is not actually conclusive proof unless the emission testing was done immediately prior to chip installation and then again immediately after, and I don't think MOT intervals are that close. Playing with the MAPS, offers a chance for those in the know to streamline the peak values of them, whereas Honda would go for a median style curve to get the best of both worlds in a 'safe marketable way'. This is not to say that I am stupid enough to think that with a chip enhancement it has no bearing at all to the fuel consumption, of course it does, but it also alters the other programmable variables to meet the new criterion, and can actually improve mileage as Akiyama says, ipso facto an all round good feeling to drive! If more of you find the emissions an issue after the swap I will go back to the ECU guy and get his thoughts on the switching issue, I have seen them done for the speed delimiters which are external, but also illegal here in Japan officially requiring the 'turn off' capacity.
Cheers

Oz

[Robin]

Did we ever get a final result on this? Was Spence's Beat emmissions just a one off case or are they all high now they have been chipped?

Any info guys?

Cheers
Robin

[daniel]

hey i live in australia is there anywhere here where you would reccomend me getting my chip upgraded??? thanks

[ozsamurai]

Daniel,

The chips come from me, who you get to install it is entirely up to your discretion, anyone with a bit of knowledge on PC work should be able to do it no problems, just don't expect Dick Smith's to handle it, lol


Oz

[daniel]

thanks for the reply i am very new to finding out all of the stuff that i can do to my beat. I was almost going to sell it after my cam cog broke and i found it very difficult to place parts in australia if you know of anyone that i can import at reasonable prices please let me know. ps. what capacitors do i need sorry forgot to ask before. thanks again dan

[ozsamurai]

Dan all the parts usually come from me here in Japan, if you need stuff off the boards etc. just drop me a line, drop me some cash and its on the way to you....see the home page (mine) for details of ordering etc.


Cheers

Oz