ignition module

[hardath14]

Hey guys. After about ten years I have been able to rebuild my engine. However the ignition seems to be problematic. Anyone has an idea where the ignition module is located? Coil and distributor seems ok thus far

[Steve_M]

Search is your friend!

http://www.u-ukhbc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?3575-problem-with-coil-does-this-sound-right&highlight=Ignition+module

[hardath14]

Thanks Steve. You are right, next time I'll try to not be lazy. Let me see what my mechanic can do with the information .

[Steve_M]

As per the wiring diagram, the ignition ignitor has 4 wires.

Blk = Earth
Blk/Yel = Ignition live from ign switch (~12 volts)
Blue = coil trigger
Wht = ECU connection (ECU trigger)

Complete wiring diagram here (http://www.manser42.freeserve.co.uk/Beat.zip)

[Steve_M]

Coil resistances

2452

[hardath14]

Thank you Steve, i'm not near to the car atm to check the wire arrangement but in the attached photos is my ignition module with five pins. Your diagram only shows four. Is this a different setup?

[Steve_M]

The connector is actually a 6 pin connector, but only has 4 wires.

[hardath14]

Its pretty hilarious, space for a sixth terminal but only five on the unit,of which the car uses four. Was going to attempt the Toyota ICM rewire and install but found this so i'm taking the chance.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0019I7Z2S/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[hardath14]

247624772478New coil and ICM did not resolve the issue. Car is home now, so starting over all the troubleshooting and i think the timing may be off. Please see attached photos.

[hardath14]

Hey Steve, i got the dizzy from Gavin, local post is a joke. Tried to follow the image for setting the dizzy timing, used the grub screw and slot at the bottom of the dizzy to align it with T mark when inserting it. Started after spending quite some time turning over the engine. Used a timing light and got the mark as best as i could, but this pushed the dizzy all the way to extreme of the adjustment bolt.

Still backfires a bit, and sometimes if i revv alot over 5k RPM, it just dies down.

Is my timing off still? Should i also check the fuel pressure regulator?

Please take a look at the videos and let me know your thoughts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duA1pGkm4wU&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GifNVhScPB4

[Steve_M]

It sounds to me as if the static timing is incorrect.

I don't like the sound of the statement "I got the mark as best as i could" that doesn't sound OK

What mark as best as could? What is static position of distributor when engine is on TDC?

[hardath14]

Hey Steve,
I got the red mark on the flywheel with the timing light, I admit though that it did seem to be a bit erratic with regards to the timing light where the red mark moved a few millimeters. That is what i meant by close enough.

When the engine was warm that day, it could be started very easily every time I did. When i tried the following day, nowhere close to starting.

I rechecked the timing again, white T mark when the cam pulley is up T marks on the back of the cam pulley line up with the head. Cylinder is all the way up and rocker arms on intake and exhaust are able to shake which means the valves are closed.

I did two methods of setting the dizzy, the one that worked was lining up the grub screw with the mark at the bottom(the other was lining he centre of the rotor cap with the mark at the top) and letting it rotate as it should when fully inserted. Rotor lines up with the number one post on the dizzy cap. Not sure exactly what position it should be in relation to the no. 1 post(leading edge, centre or trailing edge). Or if it should line up with a mark when inserted.

However, the day after when i got absolutely nothing like ignition or a "pick up" from the engine i checked the ecu. There is some Capacitor leakage and damaged components. I have passed it to a local specialist to repair it. Waiting on its return to see if I have better luck.

Any further thoughts? Can the ecu add to these problems? So strange it didn't attempt to start on day two.

There was a big grin on my face when i was revving it, even took it down the street for a while.

[hardath14]

So, the guy repaired the ECU, picked it up yesterday. He replaced the capacitors and a few other components that were damaged due to the corrosion.

I put it into the car, had the batter charged and it started in one engine crank.

It warmed up and compared to previous instances i could go up to 7000 RPM. Which was great.

The same as previously, I was able to start it when it got warm, it was just a bit hard on starting.

This morning however, not too good. What is a bit weird now, is when i try starting the engine seems to reach a spot where it seems stuck on cranking. With the spark plugs removed, it was easy to turn by hand and with the starter. But with the plugs in an attempting to start it sounds extremely hard to turn at some point. I did this so much, that i actually overheated the Ground wire and may have melted some insulation sigh.

Could incorrect timing again cause this seemingly hard spot on attempts to start? Where it might ignite at the incorrect time and make forces oppose the crank direction?

[mikei]

Hi definitely sounds like incorrect timing it will turn easy with the plugs out as there is no compression
Might I suggest you go back to the basics as Steve described and make sure all is lined up it sounds like you may only be a tooth out as you have had the car running
Good luck

[mikei]

Just to add to that post use a jump lead from battery negative to a good earth point ie gearbox / block etc before removing dizzy just in case you have a massive volt drop on earth cable

[hardath14]

Hey Mikei, what would the jump lead assist with when removing the dizzy? Oh is it in case it stored a nice Jolt of electricity for me?

The timing may be out, but at least it should have attempted to start a little. Dizzy change and it worked a little, ecu repair and it started the easiest in the recent past.

Yesterday when i started with the repaired ecu, it was with the timing set as per the instructions on site, was going to borrow a timing light but my friend was not at home.

Surely it should sound as though some ignition is happening? Hoping its still not related to the ecu.

Today cranks, seeming hard spot almost fried a ground lead trying to overcome the crank issue. One slight backfire. I'll do the timing bit again and do a video perhaps to show what was done. Maybe the error can be spotted that way.

[Steve_M]

I wonder if you have a cracked drive gear on the end of the camshaft and it is moving about.

Why did you rebuild the engine originally? Seized distributor/snapped cam belt?

If you take the distributor off and the the distributor mount housing off you would be Abel to inspect that gear on the end of the camshaft.

I suspect it's moving and causing your varying timing.

[hardath14]

A long time ago the timing belt snapped, and the engine was damaged. The dizzy was never seized up though, but was electrically defective and hence replaced. Engine was rebuild by a guy years ago He reused the head gasket, repaired the bent valves and used a toyota valve seal that was similar. The engine although suffering from overheating and a leaking head gasket worked way back then.

I removed the engine i think in 2004 in an attempt to expedite repair. I was only able to buy the parts in 2013 and the mechanic did the rebuild last year.

I can remove as such and inspect, but it should still attempt to start. Why when the ecu was repaired it started instantly, yet yesterday nothing. Just cranking with no attempt at combustion. It progressed from a hard start and basic idle to then being able to rev to 5500. After ecu repair i did 7000 rpm.

Will check the timing again, put it on the white mark and take a photo of the dizzy for you to see the rotor position. Other than that i may need to get a complete ecu.

[Steve_M]

The fact you seem to having varying timing e.g. one point running OK, then wont even start. I would certainly check the distributor drive gear.

2483

This gear is just press fitted onto the camshaft, no keyway and If the distributor has seized in the past, the gear can crack and become miss aligned on the camshaft and even move at will.

Recheck your static timing before removing the distributor, get to TDC No1 and see where the rotor is aligned.

[hardath14]

Ok, so the little cam gear is very ok. I didn't open it up, really running out of time. My mechanic spoke to me and he said it was in great shape as he redid the head for me, replaced the valves, seals, springs, head gasket, timing belt and water pump.

The dizzy didn't fail to cause the engine to break, instead it was a defective timing belt that burst and well broke the engine all those years ago.

Once again, i put the engine on TDC, Cam Sprocket is on the right mark and says UP. I even opened up the tappet cover recently to make sure the marks behind were also ok. Here i put a photo of the dizzy as the engine is on TDC.

Let me know your thoughts.

Additionally, if I remove the drain plug for the engine block jacket which by your posts says is above the oil filter and it's bone dry, what does that mean? Is the thermostatic valve stuck?

Also, is there an sensor located next to the oil filter also? I see what i believe to be a sensor missing its wire. I also have the two O2 sensors to replaced and rewire as their leads were damaged over the years.

Unfortunately, I have one more day at home with the car, and i doubt i can spend much time with it. Means she will be parked up for over 5 months again before i can return to try my luck again.

I'm thinking the ECU may still be an issue, worked magically when i plugged it in and now nada. I must really like this car.

248424852486

[hardath14]

I never continued with the thread but got the car working again. I had to buy a used ecu from Japan, the repairs did to the original were a bit too late. The repaired ecu worked but with the distributor 2-3 teeth off in order to get the TDC mark with the timing light.