alternative audio solution?

[old'uns]

got very low volumes, subwoofer speaker shot & possibly amp as well.
i may give this a try, out of the enclosure of course!
the only 4" subwoofer speaker i've managed to find that may fit existing space.
http://www.hifi-tower.co.uk/QTX-21-Computer-Speaker-Set-2-way-with-4-Subwoofer_i264_3447_0.htm

or after research on t'internet, dangerous i know :eek:.......

iPod via lineout..
http://www.amazon.com/IC-AV-Output-Cable-IPOD-Video/dp/B000K4YOVW

into this...
http://www.amazon.com/PAC-Remote-Amplifier-Level-Controller/dp/B0002J226O/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b/175-7942299-5871011

then into a 4 ch Amp to run door speakers & dash tweeters
or a 5 ch Amp to run a Sub as well ( if i can get the comp woofer to fit?)

i've got a spare radio (non-working) so hoping to use the space for the iPod/controller whilst looking OEM

any obvious things i've missed apart from lack of space?

answers/opinions welcome

[steveinjapan]

got very low volumes, subwoofer speaker shot & possibly amp as well.
i may give this a try, out of the enclosure of course!
the only 4" subwoofer speaker i've managed to find that may fit existing space.
http://www.hifi-tower.co.uk/QTX-21-Computer-Speaker-Set-2-way-with-4-Subwoofer_i264_3447_0.htm


any obvious things i've missed apart from lack of space?

answers/opinions welcome

Unpopular opinions welcome too? Here's mine: the whole concept of a 4-inch speaker acting as a sub-woofer strikes this old audio guy as absurd in the first place. Maybe, just maybe, a 4" speaker in a largish folded-horn enclosure would give a bit more low-frequency to make up for missing bass from the other 2 or 4 speakers.

I had a similar 3-speaker computer monitor set for a while (like the one from Amazon you found) and was not impressed with the sound, not to mention tripping over the sub twice a day.

Maybe, maybe, you get some extra presence from a 5th speaker, but in a tiny space like the Beat cabin..... I'd have to be convinced. I guess the theory is that since you have an amplifier dedicated to driving only the one speaker you can get that thud by boosting the low range, even if it does not go below 80-100 Hz.

But what do I know? - I only have the 40-watt, 2-speaker setup and I still store cassettes back there.

[Obsessive]

As Steve said, the Idea of getting good bass out of a 4 inch speaker is a strange one. That said I can't say I've heard a Beat with this set up so it would be interesting to get some feed back from those that do have this kit.

Personally I've opted for a decent pair of 6 inch door speakers to give better bass with the component speakers on the dash which give good imaging. They would probably go better with an external amp but as you know, space is tight!

My Fusion Marine Stereo (http://vehiclesecurity.co.nz/blog/the-obsessive-beat) fits well, has a reasonable built in amp, has full ipod control, radio, 4 channel amp output and Sub output although I'm not using an external amp at all.

If I ever do go down the amp route then I'll probably go with a 2 channel one with will just run the components.

I take it that the "PAC LC1 Remote Amplifier Level Controller" is simply to turn the volume down without having to fiddle with the ipod?

Out of interest where were you intending to fit the amp?

[old'uns]

the 4" may seem small but when working does make a real difference, OK not like a boxed 12" but enough to feel the bass. hence trying to replace the speaker if amp is working.
already replaced the door speakers, dash tweeters are OK, leaves a mess if taken out so again 4 ch makes sense as physical size of Amp not much different if a 2 ch.
yes PAC LC1 is purely for easier volume control

as for space, god knows!

under seat?
in document box, cover off if needed?
in boot with CD changer removed?

if not too cold tomorrow may go & have a play and a measure up

[Obsessive]

Just had a look at mine and think that behind the drivers seat would be a good option. All depends on how far you wish to push the seat back :)

[steveinjapan]

I wouldn't put anything behind the driver's seat. I'm only average gaijin height but usually position the seat all the way back because I use a lumbar cushion. My CD changer is mounted behind the passenger seat though, and as my main passenger is only 10 and still shorter than me, the lost 2 inches works out okay.

So the Gathers 160-watt unit has a dedicated subwoofer amplifier? I didn't know that.

[old'uns]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/subwoofer.jpg
the amp part is Pioneer built, speaker Clarion/Gathers

wiring plug into amp
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/DSCF0020.jpg

this is an old pic i took of door speaker
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/DSCF0021.jpg

Q...would 2 of those wires go to the tweeters?
from memory i'm sure 1 door had 4 wires & the other 2 only?

quick look & should be able to get amp in place of CD changer-close to battery for feed but possibly too confined for heat although looking at digital amps so may be better?
if the document case comes out again plenty of room due to the seat only going so far back
might go out this pm and strip out & see which wires go where to get my head around the wiring

[old'uns]

been out, got wet, none the wiser.
got 1 wire loose from rear plug, sub amp still works, speaker shot, wiring looks like Spaghetti Jct, pass dash tweeter bit on the quiet side.
got normal 'ish volume, passable anyway as a stop gap[.
which ever way i go, new loom needed as i'm sure nothing is anywhere near original colours!

2 wires to pass door speaker, 4 to the D/S door.
4 wires up to pass tweeter, 2 across dash to drivers side?

sub enclosure rear
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/subwooferrear.jpg

sub enclosure swung open
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/subwooferopen.jpg

sure someone asked about a plug near the handbrake sometime ago?
amp wiring but quite why the loom is in 2 parts?
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/ampplug.jpg

[Obsessive]

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/subwoofer.jpg
the amp part is Pioneer built, speaker Clarion/Gathers

wiring plug into amp
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/DSCF0020.jpg

this is an old pic i took of door speaker
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/DSCF0021.jpg

Q...would 2 of those wires go to the tweeters?
from memory i'm sure 1 door had 4 wires & the other 2 only?

quick look & should be able to get amp in place of CD changer-close to battery for feed but possibly too confined for heat although looking at digital amps so may be better?
if the document case comes out again plenty of room due to the seat only going so far back
might go out this pm and strip out & see which wires go where to get my head around the wiring

Those two brown wires that have been soldered on don't look factory!

[old'uns]

they're probably not, but could have replaced damaged originals?

no matter anyway, it's all coming out, well maybe apart from dash tweeters wiring.

going your Fusion route, meaning i can still have radio if needed, will use USB stick- cable from rear to ? - possibly behind glove box ?

4 ch Alpine amp behind pass seat

that also means CD can come out freeing up a tiny bit more room in boot.

i've got a spare non-working Gathers that i'm hoping to use just the front face & fit the Fusion into to look something like OEM

[Obsessive]

I've simply used a USB extension lead which plugs into the back of the unit and is accessed from the pocket behind the passenger seat (I can lock my Ipod in there). No reason why it could not go to the glove box.

Not sure how you could use the factory stereo fascia, but will be interesting to see what you come up with. The nice thing with the fusion unit is that it contours the lower head unit shape well.

You can print out a scale size mounting template which gives a very good indication of how it will fit: http://www.fusionelectronics.com/content/product_downloads/MS-RA200_mounting_template1.pdf

[old'uns]

slack day for a change sooooo...paper & scissors out

x fingers it will go here

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/fusionmockup2.jpg

buttons will go back in, could look into fitting a sunken USB socket.

no cutting until unit arrives though!


not my interior but again gives an idea..

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h276/old-uns/Honda%20Beat/fusionmockupcopy.jpg

may whilst got the opportunity, see about making a mould (smoothed out of course)of fascia before i hack it about, Carbon Fibre anyone?

[maiku]

I bought a double-din housing off yahoo auctions that fits with the dash.
You need to modify it a bit, but fitting a double-din touchscreen stereo is loads better than the stock one.
The beat radio uses standard 92-95 civic harness too.

[old'uns]

Amp & Fusion ordered sunday 10 pm, both arrived before 11am today, each from different sellers.

stripped out as much audio wiring as possible for the moment, Beatman was right, what a nightmare loom! so difficult to trace.

Sub amp & speaker out, CD changer from boot, CD cable apart from between Boot & cabin, hatch off i think to get to that.
loads of trim off as well, usual story, take this off to get to that, to get to.....

dash tweeters...pass side has 4 wires to it, drivers side is 6 > 4.
may end up taking dash apart to sort those out properly?
cut hole in old fascia, just need to cut hole in 'cage' for HU.
oops! measure twice, cut once as the old proverb goes.
may have gone a bit mad with the Dremel at the sides, will know once 'cage' is cut out.

off to France on Sun 'til Jan 3rd, car is now covered up prepared for Winter

[Beatman]

You look like you were in the same boat that I was in.

I've never seen the factory sub but I'm guessing your one is wrong like mine was.
The amp driving the sub states a 2ohm load where your speaker is 4 ohm like the kenwood speaker fitted in mine.

What I'm guessing is these little 2 ohm subs blow, the previous owner replaces it with whatever they can fit (a 4 ohm 4inch speaker) then your volume is quiet because the speaker has to much resistance to allow the correct amount of power to flow to it.
Also if you don't use the sub and amp in conjunction with the factory door speaker wiring it won't work as it gets its signal feed from them.

We can see someone has bypassed all that because they couldn't work it out and decided to run a new wire to the sub (like they did on mine).

http://www.u-ukhbc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=3315

The loom is in two pieces to save you and Honda money. They only provide the second half if the upgraded audio system box was ticked when the car was sold new.

[old'uns]

sub speaker is 2ohm so i'm assuming OEM?

all worked OK until about 6 months ago, sub cone was shot so sound was awful, now appears as though p[ass dash speakers are not working- loose wire on rear HU plug was found.
in New Year will strip dash out to get to speakers.
i've foolishly been assuming that dash is tweeter but with 3 speakers in each pod - low , mid & tweeter - with at least 4 wires going in to each i really need to see them. i forgot all about 4 speaker system :suicide:

[Beatman]

Wait till you start on the dash wiring. If you test the loom with a multimeter you will find both channels are connected to each other!

I'm guessing that piece of factory loom is imperative to the dash speakers working as the way its connected will be so that both channels end up with the right impedence.

[LawrenceHarding]

Wait till you start on the dash wiring. If you test the loom with a multimeter you will find both channels are connected to each other!

I'm guessing that piece of factory loom is imperative to the dash speakers working as the way its connected will be so that both channels end up with the right impedence.

This reminds me of a system I used in cars in the '70s and for that matter the way my home stereo is still wired. Start with the + terminal of the right channel and connect the two speakers in series as shown finishing with the + terminal of the left channel. All speakers were of the same impedence if I remember correctly.The idea is that the "rear" speakers play the difference between the left and right channels to give a crude surround sound effect.

[Beatman]

Ok, I went back and tested the dash speaker loom and this is what I found.

Three speakers each pod ( 2 woofers, 1 tweeter ), the tweeter and 1 woofer are connected in parallel in each pod. However the 2nd woofer is wired in parallel with the woofer tweeter combo in the other pod.

So on the left you have 1 woofer and 1 tweeter playing left channel but the second woofer is playing right channel and vice versa.
I assume this is the pseudo surround effect mentioned.

What I can't work out is each pod is listed as being 4.4 ohms.

I have measured the tweeter and it looks to be a standard 4 ohm job.
Unfortunately all my woofers are shot, like total open circuit, so I can't measure them.
But what resistance would they have to be to give a 4.4 ohm total? 3 speakers in parallel and we know one is only 4 ohms?
It just doesn't add up.
If anyone actually has a working woofer from the dash out and able to be tested it would be most appreciated!

[steveinjapan]

FWIW, you cannot tell the impedance of a speaker with an ohmmeter. The ohmmeter measures DC resistance, and the true audio impedance will be at least the DC resistance, but how much more is a guess. That said, a 2-ohm speaker will probably have lower DC resistance than a 4-ohm speaker.

[Beatman]

Yeah I'm aware of that. I was of the understanding that an ohm meter would give a reading perhaps around an ohm lower then the true impedance?
I can't put my dash back together till I sought this out and there is no labeling on the dash drivers so I'm doing whatever it takes to get to the bottom of this.
From what I've calculated 3 drivers in parallel always end up with a miniscule overall impedence so this makes problem seem to make no sense at any stage.
If someone could place a multimeter across one of the full range drivers in a dash pod we would at least have a ball park figure to work with. I could replace them with similar impedence drivers and I might at least have the peace of mind that it was more or less the same end impedence as factory.

My back up plan would be to get component speakers for the doors and use the tweeters that they come with in the pods replacing the factory tweeters. Then wire two 8 ohm full ranges in parallel in each pod and run those as the front channels,and the pod tweeter and door speakers as rear.

It would fix up this mess though I was hoping to maintain the audio wiring as close to factory as possible. Was keen to hear how the "sky speakers" sounded with the crazy wiring configuration.

[hardath14]

Would this JBL be a good replacement to the Gathers unit?

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-Bluetooth-Gauge-Style-Stereo/dp/B00JJXBBSY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1411242346&sr=1-1&keywords=jbl+175