Igition Timing, Help.

[Dickiecrx-vt]

Hi there from Holland!

Last week I set the ignition timing of our Beat., Bobby.
This was quite wrong. But when the ignition was good, the engine has no power between 1400-2500rpm.
I've put the igition ontime with a timinglamp but not use the plug in the how to.
http://www.manser42.freeserve.co.uk/page4.html
Could this really care so much? Now that the ignition is not on the right time, the engine do not have any power between 1400-2000RPM.
My feeling tells me that the timing belt is not showing up in time.

Any ideas?

[Steve_M]

Bridging the SCS connector sets the ignition map to base setting. So depending on how your engine was running it can be a fair bit different.

So definately this can cause issues.

You say when you checked it was wrong. Mmmm was it really, or have you now change it to wrong.

Strobe light definatly on No1 plug lead???

Aligning pointer with correct mark?? Red Mark.

Or using an adjustable light with setting 20 degree using the 'T' mark.

How was the engine performing before??? why did you think it needed adjusting??

[Dickiecrx-vt]

I wanted the engine to be great, so ive checked the timing.

I use a strobo with a non adjustible timing.
So the strobo is on BTDC.
I looked at the white T-Mark.
And put the cable on cil 1.
The white T-Mark is about 1 cm off from the pointer rear the end of the car.
The engine had no power between 1400-2000rpm before i adjust the timing.

Must i adjust the timing on the red mark with a non adjustible strobo?

[Steve_M]

You should bridge the SCS connector (engine check light should be on steady ) and if using a non adjustable strobe light you should set the timing to align the pointer with the red timing mark (20 degrees) of the flywheel

[Dickiecrx-vt]

Well, i just looked at the timing.

I turned the engine around when it is'nt running and i saw the t mark en a stripe op the flywheel. I think the stripe has to be red?
I started the engine and is was already on temprature and bridged the connector, engine light was going on.
But i can't put the timing on the stripe. The distributor can't go any more to the left. Also the engine is running 1400/1500rpm.
I do think the timingbelt is off timing.

[Steve_M]

Attached is a picture of the layout of the 'T' TDC mark and the red timing mark.

It may be that your distributor has been installed incorrectly and is not allowing the correct amount of adjustment.

Information on this thread should help you check distributor alignment.

http://www.u-ukhbc.co.uk/vbb/showthread.php?t=2349&highlight=distributor

[Dickiecrx-vt]

uploading pics now.

[Dickiecrx-vt]

ive checked the timing of the belt. Put it on T mark and looked at camshaftpulley.
Lookes good.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032948.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032949.jpg
Mark at pulley is exacly on the cilinder head.

[Dickiecrx-vt]

But the rotor looks like this
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032951.jpg
the bolt is as far as it can go, and still not an the red mark.
Is the rotor pointing the good way?

sorry for my bad English..;)

[Dickiecrx-vt]

just put in the dizzy as in the tread with the pics.
Engine is wobbling and code 9 appears..

maby still a wrong belt timing?

[Steve_M]

But the rotor looks like this
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032951.jpg
the bolt is as far as it can go, and still not an the red mark.
Is the rotor pointing the good way?

sorry for my bad English..;)

That looks one tooth out on the distributor gear. (but difficult to see as not looking from directly above) It looks if its aligned with the notch in the dist body when the dist is in. rather than off set due to gear spiral.

Your belt alignment looks fine.

Where is you rotor arm pointig now you used the procedure to fit distributor??

[Dickiecrx-vt]

When the distrubitor is fitted correctly the rotor is standing presezly as in the pics.
I put the 2 marks against each-other and put in the dizzy and then the rotor turns a bit.
But when i started the engine code 9 will appear.
I now put the dizzy back how it was and set the timing on correctly without the bolt in the dizzy. the timing is now good and no codes.
But the bolt can not go in. So it not on correctly.
I am starting to believe that the timing belt is off for one teeth and when putting in the dizzy correctly code 9 will appear.
what else coult it be?

This Saterday im going to check the timing on the belt.
Any tips and pics?

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032954.jpg
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032955.jpg

[Steve_M]

If you can get the timing set on the red mark with the bolt out of the distributor (as shown in the picture) then note where the rotor is pointing in relation to the distributor body.

Then pull the distributor out (the shaft will turn slightly) re inserting having turned the whole thing anticlockwise. the shaft should the turn so it aligns with the note point on the body and the bolt hole should be within the semi circle hole. (the teeth on the drive gear are quite course, so it will turn quite a way)

I hope that makes sense. its all about the relative position of the dist shaft and body, so moving the whole thing round so it is one tooth change on the camshaft drive gear will still be correct.

Your belt looks to be timed correct. 'T' mark on flywheel aligned - Cam sprocket marks line with head face.

[Dickiecrx-vt]

Well.. i looked at the timing belt last Saterday.
After 1.5 hours i can see the belt and it was correctly on time.
So i was happy and sad..
But i know now that the belt was correctly fitted.
and so i put everything back together.
Then i looked agan at the ignition timing.
put it in correctly and again code 9.
so i was sick of it and make the hole bigger where the bolt is in, so i can put the ignition timing correctly on time.

The Beat is running better than ever!
Power all the way from 1400 till 8500rpm!
No codes and problems!
I im driving it with a very very big smile on!

thanx steve!:D

Also cleaned the engine:D
http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee274/motul-civic/S5032956.jpg

[bigB]

Great thread, maybe the cam gear on the dizzy has slipped/spun a bit. Isn't it pressed on to the shaft?

[Steve_M]

Great thread, maybe the cam gear on the dizzy has slipped/spun a bit. Isn't it pressed on to the shaft?
Yes the drive gear is just a press/interference fit on the shaft and it has been known for the gear to crack and move relative to the shaft.

But Im certain in Dickie's case, he didn't need to file out the hole, just move the whole dist round one tooth, once he had found the relative timing point, without causing code 9.

I also think this shows how easy it is to get code 9 without there being any actual mechanical or electrical defect, just poor timing setup.

[Obsessive]

Fantastic post, it inspired me to run out in the dark and have a play. Perfect explanation and I no longer have a "code 9"

Thanks everyone. I can't begin to tell you all how happy I am. Off to drink large amount of beer now to celebrate. Will take Beat out for a spin in the morning once I'm sober! Idles fine :D

[TADO]

thats frikkin brilliant news julian :D
glad its sorted out at last.

[Dickiecrx-vt]

haha!

Drinking beer to celebrate!

Cheers!

[bigB]

Yes the drive gear is just a press/interference fit on the shaft and it has been known for the gear to crack and move relative to the shaft.

But Im certain in Dickie's case, he didn't need to file out the hole, just move the whole dist round one tooth, once he had found the relative timing point, without causing code 9.

I also think this shows how easy it is to get code 9 without there being any actual mechanical or electrical defect, just poor timing setup.

Agreed Steve, just how many teeth on the cam gear? as one could calculate how many degrees out.

[Obsessive]

thats frikkin brilliant news julian :D
glad its sorted out at last.

Thanks Mike,

I took the Beat for a spin today and it's running perfectly.

If I loosen the bolt that secures the distributor and turn it by a couple of degrees I can get the code 9. Twist it back and it is gone.

Steve, You're spot on when you say how easy it is to get a code 9 without a mechanical fault. I'll flick a link to this post from my earlier "code 9" post as it's such a great resource.

[Steve_M]

Steve, You're spot on when you say how easy it is to get a code 9 without a mechanical fault. I'll flick a link to this post from my earlier "code 9" post as it's such a great resource.

:)

Once you can understand the relationship between the sensors it all makes sense.

It can be difficult diagnosis over the internet, as you just can't be sure how or what someone is doing exactly, so its nice to hear someone finally gets there.