New tires/rims needed before summer

[unclejemima]

Ok, I don't "need" new tires and rims, but I would sure like to get some.

When I purchased my Beat a few years back, it came with a set of 15x6 OEM Toyota BB rims with 165/55/R15 on the front, and 195/50/R15 on the back.

3 problems I see with the current setup.

1- Weight. The OEM Toyota BB Rims are heavy, probably in the tune of 15-20lbs each. Lots of unsprung weight.

2-Size. The 165/55R15s are not bad, but the 195/50R15's on the rear are WAY to big for this car. The rolling resistance is lots to overcome with only 64hp on tap.

3-Tire rub. I get it now on the front and back. Very annoying. I'm assuming this has to do with the offset of the rims, and it probably could do with wheel spacers, but I'd rather not use them. Also the large rear tires.

Here is my solution, please chime in.

First off, I need to know what offset rim to purchase for the Beat. I've heard 0 offset, but not to sure. Would a 37mm offset work?

Second, Bolt pattern. Is it 4/100 like typical Honda 4bolt?

Last is Rim size. I like the look of 15's, but I'm pretty sure, even with 50 series rubber, its taller than its supposed to be. Should I run 14's?

All this in mind, I'd love to buy a set of Volk CE28N rims in a 15x5.5 and get some 165/45R15 front, and 175/45R15 rear.

15" affordable aftermarket lightweight rims typically only come in 15x7, what would probably be to big, or would it? I thought 15x6 would be the max size.

I'm assuming 16" are out the questions without 35 or 40series rubber, what probably does not exist in a 16" tire.

Please post your tire/rim combo and how you like it.

Thanks!

[TADO]

this site will give you a good idea about what offset you can get away with would be: www.willtheyfit.com
i doubt very much you'd get away with a 0 offset. ive seen 6" with a 0 offset on the back of the rsmach race car but they have arch extensions.
we have 14's all round, et+25, 165/55 on the front and 185/55 on the back and the car is pretty damn low now. front has no probs at all, rear would rub on the outer lip but ours are rolled and have wider wings on. if you just rolled the stock arches you'd probably get away with it.

the beat is 4x100 so loads of wheels out there, a lot of the japanese guys run 14 on the front and 15 on the rear. minkara should give you plenty ideas:
http://minkara.carview.co.jp/car/1140/parts/1/3/unit.aspx

im on the hunt for a new set at the moment - possibly hayashi streets in 14x6.5 with +13 offset for the rear. :D

[unclejemima]

Thanks Tado,

I've found a sweet set of Volk CE28N's 15x6.5 +45 offset. They are available in +28, 35, 39, 45 offset's.

These bad boy Volks weight less than 8.5lbs each for a 15" rim!!!

I'm really bad with this whole wheel thing, and even using that calculator, I'm not sure what to think.

From what I can tell, the +45's would be bad, because it would hit the strut..? Would it be better to get a +35 or 28? Is smaller number better or worse? Does anyone make a 0 offset rim?

I just have no clue what the offset really means in English. Is the 0 offset (OEM Beat Rims from what I can gather) meaning that the hub mounting is in the center of the rim?

Can you clear this up for me?

Thanks,

[unclejemima]

Ok, I hunted abit and found a post where someone was running

Ｆｒ　１３/６Ｊ　+２５
Ｒｒ　１４/６Ｊ　+38

So, if I understand this correct, a +38 offset with 6" rim on the back is good, and a +25 offset rim in the front is good.

Though both rims are different (one 14, other 13") they are both 6" wide. Does the rim width determine offset compatibility, regardless of height?

Thanks for wheels 101:)

[unclejemima]

front has no probs at all, rear would rub on the outer lip but ours are rolled and have wider wings on. if you just rolled the stock arches you'd probably get away with it.

How do you get "rolled and wider wings"? Is this something done by a body shop? Does it require a re-paint?

Thanks, and sorry for the stupid questions!

[robertobini]

How do you get "rolled and wider wings"? Is this something done by a body shop? Does it require a re-paint?

Thanks, and sorry for the stupid questions!

check the picture of the necessary tool here: http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=9108&frostProductName=Wheel%20Arch%20Roller

[unclejemima]

I talked to my body shop and they said they just take the wheel off and go at it with a hammer...! I like the tool you suggested better.
I will probably buy one in the spring and give it a try.
Take care,

[steveinjapan]

Well, I finally got some new rubber for the stock rims - 175/60-14 and 165/65-13. Nothing exciting there but the local tyre shops are very conservative about upsizing. It looks like there would be another easy 10 mm on width without any rubbing problems with the stock offset.

I haven't had a chance to do any fast driving, but the ride is definitely smoother than with the skinny Michelins I had on before.

[TADO]

Ok, I hunted abit and found a post where someone was running

Ｆｒ　１３/６Ｊ　+２５
Ｒｒ　１４/６Ｊ　+38

So, if I understand this correct, a +38 offset with 6" rim on the back is good, and a +25 offset rim in the front is good.

Though both rims are different (one 14, other 13") they are both 6" wide. Does the rim width determine offset compatibility, regardless of height?

Thanks for wheels 101:)

that definitely sounds about right - i think the enkei's i had on mine were a +38 on the back (6"). you should have no problems with that set up, with something like 165/60 or 175/60 on the back. It will be slightly closer to the strut than before but not enough to worry about.
CE28's would be very nice - this is one of my friends beats on minkara - the wheels look pretty much perfect imo (CE28N, 6j, +28offset):

in the second pic it has a 15" on the rear:


From what I can tell, the +45's would be bad, because it would hit the strut..? Would it be better to get a +35 or 28? Is smaller number better or worse? Does anyone make a 0 offset rim?
I just have no clue what the offset really means in English. Is the 0 offset (OEM Beat Rims from what I can gather) meaning that the hub mounting is in the center of the rim?

the offset is measured from the centre of the rim to the point where it attachs to the hub, so a 0 offset rim would attach the the hub right in the middle and stick out pretty far, think of the big dished wheels you see on older rwd cars, these are usually very low or even negative offsets.
this site probably explains it better than i can: http://www.nice-wheels.co.uk/pcdandoffset.html

so yeah, +45 on a 6" would probably hit the strut. the larger the number, the closer the wheel sits to the strut, the lower the number, the further out it sticks. the OEM beat wheels are something like +38 if i remember rightly.
its not really a case of better or worse, but in terms of looks, 6j +28 would be great, you might need to roll the rear arches to get away with it depending on the tyres you choose... and the same rim can look very different in different offsets!

hope that helps and hasnt confused things too much - i think ive fried my own brain thinking about it!

oh, and if you google arch rolling you might be able to find someone local who provides a mobile service. but with the wheels you're looking at you probably wont need it. :)

[TADO]

ps - heres a pic of ours- 14/6j +25 all round. you can see the wider rear panels / air vents.

[unclejemima]

ps - heres a pic of ours- 14/6j +25 all round. you can see the wider rear panels / air vents.

Thanks kindly, it makes 100% sense now. Really appreciated. It took me forever to figure this out, but now I understand.

What rim brand/model are you running? They look very sharp.

Would there be any advantage or disadvantage of running 5.5" tires (14 or 15) in just the front or all around? Because of the tire sizes mentioned, they would easy fit a 5.5" rim and save 1lbs per tire. What are your thoughts on this?

Thanks,

[TADO]

the rims are rays GR-N (i think!) - theyre kinda the predecessor to the CE28N i think!
tbh i didnt notice much difference between the 6 and 5.5 and the tyres - i bought these rims second hand and they just happened to be 6 all round.

[unclejemima]

the rims are rays GR-N (i think!) - theyre kinda the predecessor to the CE28N i think!
tbh i didnt notice much difference between the 6 and 5.5 and the tyres - i bought these rims second hand and they just happened to be 6 all round.

Cool, thanks. Wow, real Rays. Are they forged? Looks very nice. How much were those bad boys worth?

Its tough to find 14x6 rims (or any 14's for that matter) in North America, especially ones with 25 offset! Everything is usually a 15x6.5 38 or 45 offset.

Do you have a photo of the back 3/4 of the car? I'm curious what the 14's look like on the rear. I've always had in my mind that I had to get 15's for the back, but perhaps not.

What are you running for tire sizes front and rear?

Good thread, thanks for the info!

[TADO]

i think theyre cast rather than forged. theyre an older style - dont think theyre worth anything massive but i like em :D
ive just had a quick look through my pics and i dont think ive got a decent recent ass shot actually! there's this one but its sitting quite high at the rear, its a bit lower now. tyres here are 185/55r14 rear and 165/55r14 front.
i guess the size just depends on the style you want to go for really.

[unclejemima]

Very nice. You've just me convinced on 14's all the way around :)

I've found some 14x6 from Kosei that are very light and affordable. The only problem is they are +38 offset. Would a set of wheel spacers help with this?

You said that the rear of your car is now lower. How did you lower it?

So you're sure you have +25 offset? They sure are tough to find!

Thanks

[TADO]

i think you'd struggle to get new wheels in 14 with lower offsets outside japan really - both my sets have come from there second hand. it might be worth looking on places like honda-tech to see if anything interesting comes up from imported civics etc maybe?
im sure +38 would look fine too - remember, ive got bigger arches to fill at the rear! the pic of ours here is on the other wheels which are a +38 :)
if you got them and decided you wanted them a bit wider out yeah good quality spacers would probably be the way forward.

the koseis are great - they do a really nice orange set :D
i remember seeing a white one with them on that looked the nuts, but i cant find his profile now. heres a yellow one tho. not sure about the colour but the design is great - looks a lot like the enkei rfp1.
http://minkara.carview.co.jp/userid/260147/car/153071/820762/parts.aspx

"You said that the rear of your car is now lower. How did you lower it?"
at first it was on mugen struts (in the pic below) but now its on fully adjustables :)

[steveinjapan]

Someone over here should start putting "Beat" wheel sets together, because there are so many around now. Seems like almost all but the most basic "kei" car comes with good-looking alloys, and it looks like most are the same lug layout as Honda. They can't be expensive either..... Daihatsu (big-selling, maybe #1 in Japan kei cars) has the best looking ones IMHO. Getting matching 13" and 14" might be a problem but not too difficult. The only drawback is that they are probably mostly narrow rims.

[unclejemima]

Thanks guys.

I was on the Koesei Website, and they have a good selection of rims not offered in North America including the Orange K1-TS's! I thought you were kidding Tado!

http://www.koseijp.co.jp/engfl/NewPage08/Product/Specs/K1-TS.htm

Check out the 17mm offset for 14x6 K1-TS's! They are only for a 4x108 bolt pattern thou (what does that fit?)

...but they do have a 28mm offset 14x6 with 4x100 pattern (same as the Beat)

These guys are only 4.1kg each (roughly 9lbs!)

To bad they did not have a 15x6

Anyway, I'll see what I can get from my Japanese parts guy on Monday.

[marcair]

the Koesei site list a NA distributor as:
Mr. Bill Grove (tirerack.com)
7101 Vorden Parkway, Southbend, Indiana 46628 USA
Tél : 574 287 2316 | Fax : 574 236 7713

I have 185/55/15 on 15x6 w/ 36offset. The rims you mentioned may be a good candidate to drop the fronts to 14/6 and raise the rear to 15/7.

[unclejemima]

marcair, you are correct, Tirerack is the only distributor in the USA for the Kosei brand, but they only bring in select rims in select size/offsets and will not do special orders to my knowledge. Think of them as the Walmart of Tires.

Do you think the 15x7 38mm offset would fit? I know the 14x6 would, but I thought the 15x7 would be to wide, or at least need a 28mm offset to work.

[marcair]

it is relatively simple to define the distance available and the config of a rim/tire set. As for the available distance (front only as there is no issue at the rear): remove the rim and measure the lateral distance from the face of the hub inboard to the nearest obstruction. The face of the hub is the mounting surface for the rim. The nearest obstruction will be the strut or coilover. The rim config: figure rim width/2 and + or - the offset. This distance is subtracted from the available distance resulting in the final clearance for the rim. The tire config: tread width/2 and + or - the offset of the rim. This distance is subtracted from the available distance resulting in the final clearance for the tire.

My 185/55/15 on 15x6 w/ 36offset and 4mm (I think) spacer results in 1mm clearance with coil. But under certain turning conditions, the tires rub the inner wheel well. I may install 14/6 in the front to lessen the sprung weight and increase clearance.

[unclejemima]

My 185/55/15 on 15x6 w/ 36offset and 4mm (I think) spacer results in 1mm clearance with coil. But under certain turning conditions, the tires rub the inner wheel well.

You have 185/55/15's on the front! Wow.

The tire rub in the inner wheel well is a problem with me as well. I think I'll see if the body shop can customize my wheel wells to help avoid this, or get a stiffer set of springs.